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Deir. F. 29, 2009, 9:42pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 1: MiriamVanScottDo any writers out there have advice / ideas / suggestions about self-publishing /POD vs. being published through tradtional means? I could REALLY use some help! I went the 'traditional route' for my 1st books (St. Martin's Press) years ago, but when I had my latest ms. ready, I decided to self-publish because it would be faster and I would have more control. But now I'm finding that I'm having trouble getting the new book reviewd, getting it into stores, etc. Can anyone give me the 'pros and cons' of your publishing decision? Why you chose the route you did, how it's worked out for you, would you do the same thing again, etc.? Thanks! Deir. F. 29, 2009, 10:01pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 2: ajsomersetSelf-publishing can work well for a certain kind of book. Non-fiction, specialized subject or regional audience, where the author has contacts in the field and a good grip on distribution channels. For example, a friend of mine self-published a little book called Fly Fishing the Grand River. It was based, in part, on his professional research as an aquatic ecologist; furthermore, he'd been involved in distributing tackle in the province, so he had his distribution nailed down in addition to his specialized knowledge. And on top of that, he's a good writer who can put together an engaging manuscript on what could otherwise be a dry subject, without needing all kinds of editorial services. This thing has sold thousands of copies -- if it had gone the traditional route, it would have been on the bestseller list in Canada. But ... for fiction, general non-fiction, etc., I think self-publishing is suicide. So for my novel, I've taken the traditional route. Deir. F. 30, 2009, 11:55am (barr)Teachtaireacht 3: K.J.1> Of course it is not an easy route to publish yourself, which I place in a different category than POD, where the POD provider prints and ships for the author, like Lulu.com. I tried their service, and for European authors, the printing options were below zero in quality. We were forced to deal with a Spanish printer and consistency and quality were not part of his vocabulary. I gave up after four proofs. POD is also not the best way to market a book, for the folks who provide this service do not advertise in such a way as to give your book continuous exposure, which it requires. Their focus should be driving traffic to their site, but that is not the case, since most of them advertise to attract new authors. It is also very, very, very difficult - if not impossible - to get a POD book into a bookstore. I researched printers and distribution and determined that although the stores might sell a thousand copies for me - the emphasis being on 'might' - I was still going to bankroll them with copies that they could return to me months later, and I would then pay return shipping, as well. And, they could send the books back in any condition. This is how the system works, and their required discounts would have made me less than 10% on the 'loan' that financed the placement of books on their shelves. Big publishers can take this hit, but individual authors cannot. There is no guarantee that my book would have received adequate and continuous shelf placement, during the time that the stores had them in their inventory, either. I wrote my book while living in Germany, so it is published with a German ISBN, which I purchased directly. I printed it in the UK, and I ship exclusively from my website. Shipping a book from Germany is very inexpensive, in comparison to other parts of the world, so this has worked out well, from that standpoint. By printing myself, I have been able to keep the cost lower, as well, which translates into saving for my readers. So, I print in the UK and take delivery in Europe, and then do the order fulfillment myself. This allows me to keep a clear eye on quality control, which is essential to maintaining a good relationship with readers. I have over twenty-five years in marketing and advertising, so that aspect is under control. The key that is difficult is getting enough exposure to sell those thousands of copies. I have three websites and exposure on several blogs, as well as my own. So far, sales have trickled in, which is a good sign. I am also a co-creator of a gay comic, which has a large following already, and I cross-market my book with that audience, since the name recognition is already established. As you can see, it is a lot of work, and I am still seeking additional methods of gaining exposure for my writing. I will, however, caution you on offering your book to libraries for free, which I did. I was surprised to learn that they do not like a direct offering from an author, and many just ignored the message, even though I was paying the shipping as well as donating the book. I had heard that libraries were always looking for new books, and I foolishly believed this, only to learn that this is not so - in the USA. Only one (1) library in the USA I targeted with my email message was happy to take me up on my offer. (I did my research and sent the message with links to my site, and a small image of the book cover, as well as making sure I had the name of the decision maker for the particular library to whom I addressed the email.) So, I guess if you have a strong marketing background, a means of directly targeting whatever niche your writing falls into and a website, you can at least find some success with your work. If you're curious about the website structure I used, etc., I invite you to have a look: http://www.kristophe.com http://www.myspace.com/kjsbooks Feel free to send a note, if you have questions. PS: Would I prefer to have a publisher doing it all for me? Yep. Chuir údar na teachtaireachta in eagar í, Deir. F. 30, 2009, 12:03pm. Samh 2, 2009, 7:41pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 4: AlexAustinI think that AJ and K.J made good points. Five years ago I found an agent to handle my first novel and she got the book to publishers. One small but prestigious publisher was interested based on the outline and first fifty pages, but when the remainder of the book was submitted they turned it down for being too depressing. The agent then dropped me. I revised the book, considered trying the legitimate route again, but instead went with a POD publisher, Xlibris. The quality of the book was fine, but working with the publisher in any other aspect was a horror. The book did have a regional hook: it was set in New Jersey. It got good to great reviews in many NJ publications, and even beyond the Garden State. Based on the reviews and the book itself, I got the regional director of Borders to agree to stock the book in most of their NJ stores and a few outside of the area. I also got a number of B&N stores interested in carrying it. The catch was that the publisher had to make the book returnable. Xlibris would not budge on this. The idea of having the book in brick and mortar stores was too enticing to resist. I republished the novel with PageFree Publishing, which would make the book returnable for a fee of $500. So I got my book in stores. Great. Sort of. Pagefree didn't envision that so many stores would agree to carry the book, and of course a publisher can't refuse to print books for B&N. So when the stores started returning the books (the returnability agreement was for one year), Pagefree had to eat costs. I didn't cost me anything beyond the $500, but I didn't make anything on the books that were sold in stores (to get my money out of Pagefree would have taken a lawsuit). By the way, I did sell the book to many N.J. libraries. Ok, I wrote my second novel, The Red Album of Asbury Park, and I decided to go directly to a POD Publisher again. I didn't bother sending the book to agents or publishers (the last thing they want is dark working class realism). I published the novel a year ago, and republished it in September 2009 (Now called The Red Album of Asbury Park Remixed). Although it was getting excellent reviews, I was troubled by some aspects of the book. I'm happy now. Getting the book reviewed is difficult, but I have gotten it covered in Jersey's two top papers (bleak but compelling, but this was before the revise), and in numerous print and online pubs. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of sites that review fiction, but POD or self-published (I really don't think it makes much difference) books are not welcome. I find myself spending an enormous amount of time just trying to promote the book online (just one more review!), and it interferes with a new novel I'm trying to write. But occasionally things happen that I beleive that justify my efforts. Check out this site: http://readersdiscotheque.blogspot.com/2... How good would a pod novel have to be to break through? If if were good it wouldn't be self-published. How can one break through that? One can't. I'm trying. Alex Of course, there's no money in this. Samh 3, 2009, 6:58am (barr)Teachtaireacht 5: AnnieLeVoguerI decided to go down the self-publishing route. I'd read that Stephen Clarke had done the same with his 'Year in the Merde' and sold so many copies the publishers took notice. 'Teenager en Provence' is also a relocation story, but from the point of view of the teenager who didn't want to move rather than the adult that dreamt of la vie en France, so it's quirky and unusual. I researched various agencies and spoke with a couple of them, before deciding to part with nearly £1000 to have the book professional edited and turned into a pod. My biggest problem has been that I live on an island between France and the UK and would really need to be able to reach out to bigger chains of bookshops. My local Waterstones took it straight away and have been helpful, but I feel that is because I went there and sold it to them. Sending a review copy in the post gets you nowhere, so if you are to self publish make sure you have a large enough area of bookstores and be prepared to travel to knock on doors. I then added myself on authorsden.com which has generated many US sales as you can offer sample chapters for reading. I have a website that receives around 100 hits a month, not a lot but they do say slowly slowly, it started out less than a year ago with about 2! If your book has a theme, use that theme area, my book is listed in the publications of French magazines for the British francophile. I think if you go down the self publishing route you must be totally convinced of your book and your ability to sell it. It is hard work and I wouldn't do it again purely as it is so time consuming it doesn't give me much chance to write anything else. Re libraries, they must all be different because my local library bought 4 copies. Conclusion - check out the stores/libraries/local media/etc to see if they would be interested before parting with your money. Hope that helps. KR Annie Samh 4, 2009, 9:23am (barr)Teachtaireacht 6: K.J.4> It sounds like a harrowing experience, and I found Lulu.com to be less than forthcoming, and when asked in their forums to explain the shoddy work Euro authors were getting, they either locked the forums, or ignored them. POD can be a nightmare. I do disagree with your statement: "If it were good it wouldn't be self-published." There is a great deal of self-published literature that is as good if not better than much of the mainstream books you find at Borders, etc. Getting published does not guarantee that the reader will find great literature, it only guarantees that the publisher thinks it is a great moneymaker. It is a matter of getting to the right people, and as an English-speaking author living in Germany, it is not as easy to get in front of the people whom I need to meet. So, I do the best I can with what I've got, and part of that is a great book. Chuir údar na teachtaireachta in eagar í, Samh 4, 2009, 9:26am. Samh 4, 2009, 9:43am (barr)Teachtaireacht 7: AlexAustinHi, K.J. I disagree with the statement, too. I meant that it's the prevailing opinion of many reviewers. Most will not even consider self-published books. It's an attitude we must somehow change. Samh 4, 2009, 9:51am (barr)Teachtaireacht 8: VisibleGhostIs there a website that tracks self-published books that succeed? By succeed I mean sell more than a couple of hundred copies. Or get picked up by a big publisher. The recent ones that I'm aware of are The Shack, Still Alice, and Daemon. Three very different books with very different audiences. Samh 4, 2009, 11:16am (barr)Teachtaireacht 9: MiriamVanScottI know The Christmas Box began as a self-published work, and I think maybe Eragon did too but I'm not positive about that one. It would be great to have a source showing which ones 'made it!' Samh 4, 2009, 12:16pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 10: K.J.7> We are in full agreement. Perhaps the 'new market equalizer' (the internet) will help us with this challenge. Samh 4, 2009, 1:44pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 11: lilithcat> > 8 The late E. Lynn Harris is probably one of the most famous self-publishers who succeeded. He couldn't find a publisher for his first book, Invisible Life, (I suppose the depiction of black male homosexuality scared them), and shopped it around by himself, selling it to African-American bookstores. He found himself with a hit on his hands, was picked up by Anchor Books, and went on to hit the New York Times Bestseller list ten times. Samh 4, 2009, 2:00pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 12: JohannaMoranThere are a few shining examples of self-pub success - Chicken Soup for the Soul comes to mind - but they are the exception, not the rule. I went the traditional route with my novel and couldn't be happier. There are a lot of great people working to get it noticed. I could never have done it all on my own. THE WIVES OF HENRY OADES will debut in the UK on Feb. 4th and in the US on Feb. 23rd. I've already had lovely reviews from both Publishers Weekly and Kirkus. Random House is giving away 30 copies on Goodreads, by the way. The contest ends Nov. 8th. Keep writing....Don't give up ~ Johanna Moran Samh 6, 2009, 11:58am (barr)Teachtaireacht 13: MargaretCmelik Originally self-published books I hope this encourages everyone. I love self-publishing because to me it is a challenge and I keep control. Be the social butterfly. You have to sell yourself first. I think that is the key. You are really the product here. People want to know the author. The book can really stink but if the author is someone they want to get to know, they'll buy the book. Use the internet. There are so many places to network. Good luck. Samh 7, 2009, 8:43am (barr)Teachtaireacht 14: Mud#13 I notice most of the books on that list are either self-help or by people who were already famous. Very few fiction books. Samh 7, 2009, 4:43pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 15: AlexAustinWhy do you think that's the case? Noll 3, 2009, 3:42pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 16: copyedit52Sometimes, in the wake of continual rejection by agents and publishers, you don't have a choice ... or rather, the choice is: publish yourself or file that book away in a cabinet with the others. Noll 4, 2009, 1:10am (barr)Teachtaireacht 17: bkswritesRe #10, "Perhaps the 'new market equalizer' (the internet) will help us with this challenge." I've just started dipping my toe into the Kindle. Amazon (dtp.amazon.com) will let you throw up just about anything at the price of wrestling with plain or html text. I've gotten around those difficulties by putting up my work in progress in parts (Stronger than Sin or Silence), which also helps because it makes a price tag small enough to maybe attract someone not hurt me so much. OTOH, I went ahead with this after a friend, who had told me months ago about another friend, Karen McQuestion, added that she was making up in volume what her 2 novels and 2 collections lack in Kindle pricetags. And I believe she's had other good developments, but I don't know how public they are. I've also been doing some small-scale self-publishing in Hewlett-Packard's Magcloud project (mine are at http://magcloud.com/bkswrites, including How to Be a Big Brother by Barbara Kellam-Scott). It's print on demand, and you have to send them a pdf, but it's kind of a cool way to do a picture book you've been trying for ages to get published. Of course, with both of these routes, you have to do some promoting. But that's not the only reason I'm here (grin). (sorry I had to put my name on that last touchstone; it was giving me a different book) Noll 11, 2009, 4:06pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 18: VisibleGhostSome numbers from going the traditional route. "in 2004, 950,000 titles out of the 1.2 million tracked by Nielsen Bookscan sold fewer than 99 copies. Another 200,000 sold fewer than 1,000 copies." The barriers are overwhelmingly high in getting any kind of book noticed these days including the ones with traditional contracts. http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstth... Noll 11, 2009, 4:34pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 19: ajsomersetYou can choose to face the 8-foot brick wall with iron spikes on top, or the mined catwire fence covered by machine guns firing on fixed lines. All barriers are not created equal. In the discussion of self-publishing, it's time to stop pretending that a book is a book is a book. The challenges involved in selling a short story collection are quite different from those involved in selling a hiking guidebook to the Appalachian Trail. Notice how few successful self-published books are fiction. Noll 11, 2009, 6:51pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 20: AlexAustinIn terms of book sales, what is the definition of a successful work of fiction? Is the definition the same for self-published and other-published fiction? In terms of reviews, how many positive reviews constitute "artistic" success for a work of fiction? Is the definition the same for self-published and other-published fiction? Of course, the established media will not even consider reviewing self-published fiction. What is ironic is that most self-published reviewers will not consider self-published fiction. Example: Bookslut). Noll 11, 2009, 7:30pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 21: ajsomersetAs a writer, you shouldn't care how many copies you have to sell to be called successful. You should care about which route is likely to return a greater number of dollars to your bank account. Noll 11, 2009, 8:18pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 22: AlexAustinOn this, I side with Alfalfa. His bank account should be of no concern to the artist, who needs merely adoration. By the way, I'm looking for a good Guidebook to the Appalachian Trail. Can you suggest one? Noll 11, 2009, 8:51pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 23: ajsomersetNope. Never read a single one. Adoration vs. cold cash ... writing is about artistry, publishing is about money. But if you want adoration for writing fiction, you better stay away from self-publishing, I think. It still carries that taint of the vanity press. Noll 11, 2009, 9:28pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 24: AlexAustinFor prostitutes, prostitution is about money. For the John, prostitution is about sex. For publishers, publishing is about money, for writers, publishing is about adoration, broadly defined. Self-publishing may well be fucking oneself. Noll 12, 2009, 8:54am (barr)Teachtaireacht 25: copyedit52I agree ... I think. But instead of money vs. adoration, I'd say money vs. appreciation. I've been adored a few times, and it can be a burden. Noll 12, 2009, 10:11am (barr)Teachtaireacht 26: AlexAustinI once had a friend who charitably instructed me, “Sleeping with a beautiful woman can get boring fast.” Your book “I Think Therefore Who Am I?” covers ground that interests me. I’ll pick up a copy. No matter how good the book is, I promise I won't adore you. Noll 16, 2009, 4:41pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 27: JNagarya"For prostitutes, prostitution is about money. For the John, prostitution is about sex." For prostitutes, prostitution is about both: sex and money. For Johns, prostitution is about both: money and sex. Chuir údar na teachtaireachta in eagar í, Noll 16, 2009, 4:42pm. Noll 16, 2009, 4:45pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 28: JNagarya#25 -- No one can adore me as well as I can adore myself. And that is effortless, and deserved, so not a burden. And as it costs me nothing, I'm not engaged in prostitution. Noll 16, 2009, 4:47pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 29: JNagarya"I once had a friend who charitably instructed me, 'Sleeping with a beautiful woman can get boring fast'.” There's the error: it isn't about the sleeping with her. It's about what one does with her when not sleeping. Noll 16, 2009, 6:45pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 30: AlexAustinOh, no, every moment he spent with her not sleeping was fine. The sex, everything. He meant just the sleeping part. As to 27, I was a sailor once. I fully support you on 28. Noll 17, 2009, 9:36am (barr)Teachtaireacht 31: copyedit52Interesting, that you were a sailor once. I just finished reading The Lost Sailors by Jean-Claude Izzo, best known for his Marseille trilogy. There's a lot about prostitutes in it, and true love. You might enjoy it. Chuir údar na teachtaireachta in eagar í, Noll 17, 2009, 9:37am. Noll 19, 2009, 3:57pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 32: DavidHFearsAllow me to share a few secrets of my success in self-publishing, both fiction and non-fiction. Some of these come from my experience and some from associates who have also tried self-publishing. First, there is a long and hallowed tradition in American letters for self-publishing. However, there is also a long and sullied tradition for SP to carry a stigma, as expressed by some here, that "if it was good it wouldn't be self-published." Mark Twain would disagree, as would a hundred other well known authors who have taken that route. Here's what i know works: Set up a company, however organized, with another's name not your own--say a sister who is married, or a cousin or someone who will allow use of your name; or a wife with her maiden name, etc. It's fairly cheap to do a LLC and it can all be setup online. Then buy a PO box, a group of ISBN numbers (10) from Bowker's. A couple of unpaid "advisors" helps too, esp. if one can copy-edit your stuff. NEVER disclose that your book is self-published--not to other writers, not to anyone. Next you will need to interview printers and/or binders. YOu may also need to do the same with graphic artists as you'll need a dynamite cover for fiction; perhaps no dust jacket for non-fiction. Get quotes for printing/binding 50, 100, 200 copies--no more than you think you can sell in a year. Build a mailing list--start with friends, associates, etc. Calculate the publication costs per volume and then calculate the number you'll have to sell to break even. In one case, for a run of 100 I needed only 34 sales to break even, then the remaining 66 were profit, less misc. expenses. Marketing works best for non-fiction niche books; it's toughest for fiction, of course. I advise setting a cover price at twice the publication price, at the very least--more if the market can bear it. The rest, from bar codes to registering the co. and making an email addy for it, etc. is all detail stuff easily done and with little cost. Reviews may be critical, but for the most part the lack of them still won't keep you from breaking even or making money. Remember, you're getting ALL the profits here, not 10% or 15% of the cover price. Make it a business. Do it businesslike. You don't have to be a supersalesman, though it helps. In my case I had a business for a few years and put a volume of mine on the counter at a discounted price for customers. I sold by email, by website, etc. There are FREE websites where you can sell using a credit card through paypal without the expense of a merchant account. Well, there's more but these are the main ideas. Self-publishing CAN lead to a traditional publisher ponying up to take your book--if you can show some real sales. David Noll 19, 2009, 10:34pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 33: bkswritesHas anyone else here tried the new Internet routes (seen notes 10 and 17 above)? Noll 20, 2009, 8:37am (barr)Teachtaireacht 34: copyedit52Thanks for that, David. But for someone with less business smarts than you obviously have, the details you mention add up and, cumulatively, seem quite daunting. I'll bet I'm not the only one on this thread who thought: I wonder if he can do that for me? That is, envision you as a more humane publisher who might take their book and run with it. Like me. I'm available to be your client. Chuir údar na teachtaireachta in eagar í, Noll 20, 2009, 8:39am. Noll 20, 2009, 9:31am (barr)Teachtaireacht 35: K.J.32> Your points are dead on. Over time I have discovered the only link I am missing is having a separate company from which I sell my book(s). Unfortunately, my studio is in Europe and Germany requires untold volumes of paperwork and 'proof' that the company is a 'real' publisher (by their standards) before one can be an official entity. It is not an inexpensive undertaking in Germany. (Lawyers also have to be involved and the way they create their fees, here, reminds one of the highwaymen of ancient lore.) If I were back in the States, I would have set up a corp or LLC in a heartbeat. It places an entity between the author and the finished work, which presents the book as coming from a publisher, and not an author. Since perception is much of the marketing game, it is a valid suggestion. However, having structured businesses in the USA in the past, I would suggest paying a small fee for legal and CPA assessment of such a plan. There is no sense in paying double taxes on your earnings, and/or having to wrest control of your writing from a third party - even if it is family. Get solid, professional advice, to better implement David's suggestions. 34> It can be daunting, but with a little help from technical friends, it is not impossible. I am not technically-oriented, yet I have several websites, the one for my writing having been built by myself in its entirety. It does not glow in the dark, but it is effective for what I wish it to do for my writing: http://www.kristophe.com Unlike many, I am fortunate in that I can create my own cover art, and/or commission my own designs. This is very important and David's suggestion that you develop relationships with printers and artists is an essential ingredient. In this day and age, it is very likely that there is someone you know who is proficient at website construction and can either help you, or do it for you. Ask around, especially at the local school's computer class. With the teacher's permission, you might be able to post a note seeking help with this. There are a ton of burgeoning creative people in school, and they will likely know the latest processes. There is also bound to be someone within your sphere of influence who can help you with reviewing the legal and IRS details you will need to delve into to protect your writing and your pocketbook. If not, go to your local law shop and ask what the fee would be for a simple overview consultation of an idea. Many will charge only a small fee from 50 USD up. Chuir údar na teachtaireachta in eagar í, Noll 20, 2009, 9:36am. Noll 20, 2009, 7:21pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 36: DavidHFearsScrios údar na teachtaireachta seo í. Noll 20, 2009, 8:55pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 37: copyedit52If you would, David, it's a concern of mine that whatever book I put forth can be sold on Internet outlets like amazon, barnes&noble, etc. Are there speciall difficulties with that, or is it just a matter of knowing what to do, and perhaps paying fees, or whatever. Chuir údar na teachtaireachta in eagar í, Noll 21, 2009, 6:58am. Noll 21, 2009, 1:51am (barr)Teachtaireacht 38: DavidHFears37> the worst "special difficulty" is the fact that Amazon wants 55% of the cover price on any sales of your book. Not too practical, unless you inflate your cover price and/or deflate your production costs and expenses. There are other ways to sell books online. You can go eBay or make a free website on webs.com that incorporates Paypal and credit cards in a store function. Look at it this way--the big boys, like Amazon and B&N want to go through the big distributors--everybody wants a piece of the price, which makes little sense unless you're publishing thousands and thousands of books. But you can make it profitable with only a hundred at a time, once you know how. The main thing is to treat it like a business and NOT to get stuck with a garage full of books. As the poster in #35 points out, you need a business entity to stand between you the author and the purchasers, whether those are bookstores or individuals. One of my friends did his LLC using his wife's maiden name, and he handles all the details. Create a new email for the company, a PO box, set up shipping details, figure out how to market the books, try all sorts of marketing on a shoestring--this works best with a niche non-fiction work, but it can be done with fiction, it's just a lot harder. There are a couple of good "bibles" on self-publishing, but none of them suggest this "front publishing co." approach. As for taxes, you just file the proper profit/loss schedule and keep all records. With an LLC you don't need a special return like you would with a corp. Marketing and publishing details make for nice breaks from all the writing, too. I don't sell to wholesalers, jobbers or distributors, because they all want 40-50% off the cover price. What does this mean for me? It means I'd have to sell 6 or 7 books at that discount for every 1 book I sell direct. Inné, 7:30pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 39: K.J.38> An LLC is a good idea, but one must keep in mind that there are tax ramifications for having this 'entity' between the author and the customer: double taxation. With the IRS, your LLC will be taxed on earnings and if you pay the author (yourself) you will then be liable for personal income tax - because you are receiving royalties from the publisher - your LLC, which = double taxation on your earnings. Seek the advice of a good tax analyst, as I did, before setting up any entity such as this in the USA. I do agree with the sales analysis, regarding jobbers and wholesalers: I know that when one of my books leaves the studio, it is actually, truly, really sold, and not coming back to me, shipped both ways at my expense, in any condition, a year later. It is a true sale, and the profit is not diluted down to fifty cents. When analyzing my prospects with Amazon, I quickly realized that I would be financing them and basically producing for them, as I would be the last one in line for profit, if there was any left, and my book would have to be priced too high. It's actually much better for me financially if I sell two hundred books from my studio, rather than one thousand books through Amazon, B&N and the rest. Check them all out, thoroughly, and then run the numbers. Just remember to add in ALL the costs of doing business with third party distribution agreements. Inné, 7:52pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 40: DavidHFears39> Okay I hear you about the possible tax ramifications. But if one sets up an LLC under the wife's maiden name, with NO ownership by the husband (or vice versa) and the two file married jointly, where is the double taxation? There isn't any. One simply owns a business in name, the other owns it virtually, doing all the activities involved. If theres profit/loss it is itemized on a Schedule C. Taxes are paid on profits once. If I'm missing something, please tell me. Thanks. David Inné, 11:38pm (barr)Teachtaireacht 41: bkswritesI think the double taxation comes up only if, as K.J. supposes, you pay yourself a set royalty or salary from the corporation, whoever owns it. If you use a schedule C as David proposes, it doesn't matter who owns the company (for tax purposes; liabilities are another matter). I still operate, publishing on Kindle and at magcloud.com, as a sole proprietorship, same as I did as a freelancer getting paid by specific clients. What I don't see, David, is how you get any kind of distribution, especially on fiction, going it entirely alone, unless your market is a very easily and narrowly identified niche. It's the age-old tradeoff between volume and proportion of proceeds. Personally, I would be willing to pay a traditional publisher the majority of the cover price to let them handle both production and marketing and leave me alone to write. And I am willing to give Amazon 65% of my cover price in exchange for access to their domination of the e-reader market and their understanding of volume. Since I have absolutely minimal production costs for Kindle and my main purpose at this time is to get my name and my work circulating, I've set the cover price lower than anyone could do in the hardcopy world. You just have to decide what your goal is and then weigh the options. And the Internet has simply provided a wider range of options, to both writers and publishers. Inné, 12:10am (barr)Teachtaireacht 42: DavidHFears41> Fiction is another matter, and yes, much tougher to swing. Still, it can be done and I have done one collection of short stories this way. I had a very large mailing list, and sold them in connection with a computer business I ran for 17 years. You see the major publishers use major distributors so the deck is stacked for huge numbers of sales. A man self-publishing does not have distribution channels--he has to make them from scratch. Reviews help tremendously. Word of mouth, too. "Papering the house" to send out a bunch of freebies to those who can influence others. I had one customer buy 20 of my short story books for gifts. Of course I did a discount for him. But just any old novel may not be able to crack many sales--it's true, a niche book of some kind is much better. Still, how many published novels make much money for the author? Plus, publishers won't market much any more, unless you're already a name. Agents all want block-busters, or they don't want this or that, no matter how good the writing is. Me, I like variety of activity and self-publishing or collaborative publishing (several involved) keeps me busy. Inné, 10:00am (barr)Teachtaireacht 43: K.J.40> David, I refer to royalties paid to an author, which is what the IRS will eventually look for, in your wife's LLC. If she is a publisher, then there is the expected category of royalty expense. If you received a royalty check from her LLC, it would be taxable income to you, under USA IRS taxation codes. Notice that I did not say 'law' but taxation codes. This would be double taxation on the same income, although a smaller portion of it, to be certain. An LLC is an individual entity, similar to a corporation. The main advantage of a LLC is the liability issue and the pass-through, which it sounds like your wife is using to recapture your income from the book sales. The default for taxation makes it the same as a sole-proprietorship, unless stated otherwise, when filing. There is flexibility in a LLC which is not available to corporations, including the minimum state income tax required in some states. California requires a minimum tax on corps at 800USD, which is a helluva kick, if you have low sales. Here is some pertinent info, regarding LLCs: http://www.companiesinc.com/llc/taxation... Overall, it is a good suggestion, and folks may want to consider it. It can't hurt...too much. 42> I spoke with several authors, who all shared with me that they not made one dime with publishers and wholesalers and are waiting for the other shoe to fall on the returns issue, which will wipe out any income they might have received, for this year. I am fortunate to have a small base from which to draw initial sales and get reviews and blog activity. Without it, it is probable that I would still have the books in my studio next Christmas. It is a toss-up at this point, to go with a major house and make no money, or sell direct and pay myself back for the production and marketing costs. The latter seems more attractive, from this viewpoint, and it keeps the price of my book at a very reasonable level. Chuir údar na teachtaireachta in eagar í, Inné, 10:05am. 43> No royalty checks need be issued, if one has a checking account in a dba name. One can have an LLC as a sole proprietor, partnership or corp.
If sole prop. then checks & such go into an account with the dba. Paypal can be set up likewise. A PO box, checking acct., and credit card, can all be obtained by a sole proprietor. No special tax forms, no royalty checks because NO royalties are paid! What is paid is the difference between sales & expenses. The only special tax need is a schedule C, Profit & Loss from a Business. In a community property state (I'm in Oregon) what is hers is mine, & vice versa. Let me back up here--the whole idea of a "front" company is to get around the ridiculous stigma by some about purchasing self-published books. It's literary snobbery, pure and simple. I have found a way around it, and I claim no ownership in the publisher, though I do all the work and enjoy all the profits. I don't mind paying taxes on the profits at all--in fact, I'd gladly pay 2x, 3x taxes on profits, which would net me a LOT more than selling to wholesalers at 50-60% off the cover price. Debug test: your member name is: |
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